How bad can it be?

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer) 01/04/2018 at 17:04 • Filed to: None

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Now that I’m finally getting a car worth taking to the track I was wondering what tracking a car actually entails. Since many of you autocross your cars, I wondered if you had any tips or recommendations.

The two tracks in the Mexican Valley that have trackdays are Hermanos Rodriguez in Mexico City; a GP track with a lot of history that costs anywhere from 150-250 dollars a day to go to a trackday.

Then there’s Centro Dinamico Pegaso in the outskirts of Toluca, however they do not publish pricing options. Its more a test facility than a track to be honest.

And to me paying 250 dollars for a day at a track seems exorbitant, but then again, I’m new to all of this and I don’t really know if its a bargain or expensive.

I decided that before tracking the car I should save up for a while and invest in tires for the track and for shorter maintenance periods, which would end up costing up to 2500 dollars per year if I were to track the car five times (the car’s tires are way more expensive here than in the US for some reason and make up 50% of the budget) so it would be an unsustainable hobby.

So any recommendations?

CobraJoe > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 17:24

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Is the $250 per day trip the only option? My local track does a once a month “Funday Sunday” that’s a $60 for a full day. It is more limited, short track only, passing only on straights, no real insurance for potential damage. But it’s a great option for getting some speed on a track.

Other than that, make sure your car is up for it. See if there’s a “self checklist” of things that should be checked before the trackday, but I’d suggest checking the tires (condition and pressure), oil (engine and transmission), brakes (condition and fluid level, maybe even flush out the old fluid for new fluid), and then just a general clean out (you don’t want crap blowing or rolling around when driving on track).

MarquetteLa > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 17:30

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What tires are you looking at? Seems to me if you can cut costs there it’d make things more bearable.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 17:30

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$250 for a track day sounds quite cheap honestly. What does it include? How much actual drive time? How is it arranged? Is it an open track for all, or split out by experience groups? How long are the runs? All of these things matter and make a huge difference in determining how good a value it is. But in general at least in US terms $250 for a day is on the cheaper end I would say.

Don’t be that guy who mods the shit out of his car before knowing a thing about track days and showing up with way too much car for his skill level. You seem to be on the right track in not going overboard. So yes, make sure you have good and safe tires, get your brake pads replaced if they’re close to needing that, fresh brake fluids, make sure you’re up on oil changes, cooling system is in tip top shape, etc. So essentially a really good thorough basic maintenance is all you NEED for your first track day. Hope this is some kind of structured program where you get a lesson and have an instructor riding along with you – both super important and helpful to help you learn, especially for your first time. Having a safe car that isn’t going to break down and focusing on learning should be your key. After that you can work on improving your driving, becoming faster, and then working on making your car faster/handle better over time.

But yes you’re right, for most it is an unsustainable hobby. It was a ton of fun while I was single and didn’t have much else to spend fun money on. So it’s a great hobby to try out if you’re a car guy and can afford it at the moment. And remember, a full day at the track is EXHAUSTING so don’t push yourself too hard. Look in to autocross if you haven’t already – much cheaper, easier to do on a whim without much planning, less risk, less of a time commitment, and you still get to have a ton of fun and improve driving skills while learning more about how your car handles at the limit.

Spanfeller is a twat > CobraJoe 01/04/2018 at 17:32

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On the 2.5k budget I have fluids thought for...you recommend to check after each track day?

Spanfeller is a twat > MarquetteLa 01/04/2018 at 17:33

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The standard Stinger tires... I think they sell it with conti sport contacts?

I’d have to check again...

Spanfeller is a twat > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 01/04/2018 at 17:35

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They did not specify what it includes, but I will ask.

In reality I do need an instructor, but I know a guy... The issue with the stinger is that Mexico City is hot and high, so I’d like to get a tune so that the engine runs at 300 or 290hp understressed, specially for me, a newbie

MarquetteLa > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 17:36

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So your budget is replacing the car’s OEM tires with the same OEM tires? You ought to be looking at better traction tires for track duty. Find your tire size and shop around. Those OEM tires very likely won’t be suited to track conditions in terms of grip or lifespan. And OEM tires are generally more expensive than non-OEM.

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 17:40

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Before. Change the oil before. Brake fluid needs a flush at the start of the year and then a good bleed before other events. Stuff like transmission and diff is once a year, just make sure it’s not leaking.

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 17:43

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If this guy you know is already a qualified instructor, great. The person teaching you to not die is pretty important. Check your ego, step one.

Spanfeller is a twat > MarquetteLa 01/04/2018 at 17:44

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I could get pzeros but those are more expensive.

The stinger has staggered tires and looking at tyres here in Mexico I only have some four or five options, all at around 1000 bucks for the tires; none of them track rubber.

Spanfeller is a twat > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 01/04/2018 at 17:45

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He’s a Porsche cup champion.

Spanfeller is a twat > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 01/04/2018 at 17:45

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It seems reasonable

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 17:54

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You don’t need anything fancy when you’re just starting, going to something like a slick too soon is just going to hide poor driving.

MarquetteLa > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 17:54

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This website is based in the UK but will ship to the US (and Mexico I’d assume). $81 USD per rear tire (255/35-19) plus shipping.

https://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/competition-tyres/yokohama-advan-neova-ad08r-tyre

EDIT: Posted too quickly, the $81 number wasn’t based on your specific size. The point still stands, though: you can find good rubber at a palatable price if you look around online.

Spanfeller is a twat > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 01/04/2018 at 17:56

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I want to buy OEM because I read that the standard tires are hard (read: last long) so I want a set for track duty and a set for road duty.

nermal > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 17:57

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The most important thing to know about track days (and racing) is that you should never take something on track unless you are ok with the possibility of throwing it in a dumpster as a total loss.

Look at this pile of squashed cars. Are you ok with your’s being one of them?

It may seem a bit harsh, but it’s reality. Understand the risk involved.

Once you’re over that, make sure that your tires, fluids, and brakes are all in order. Shocks are the next thing to go, so keep them in mind.

$500 per day (along with the risk of your car ending up as a worthless pile of scrap) may seem expensive, but not compared to getting a ticket on the street for driving in the same manner you can on track. You will also find very few experiences that are as exhilarating for the same cost.

You may also want to consider getting into bikes - Running a season of track days on a motorcycle will end up significantly cheaper than a comparable car.

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > CobraJoe 01/04/2018 at 17:58

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$60/day is great for experienced drivers to get seat time, but unless there are instructors there it is not an environment for someone just starting out.

Spanfeller is a twat > MarquetteLa 01/04/2018 at 17:58

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Me like...

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 18:04

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...I mean.... Sure?

If you’re going to the bother of two sets, I would recommend some high-performance street tires. Not a slick, but something sticky. Tracking on hard OEM tires sorta defeats the purpose...

Spanfeller is a twat > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 01/04/2018 at 18:08

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Well, again, I’m a newbie; I’m here to listen... And it makes sense that tracking on hard tires may not be worth it.

If I buy, say, semi slicks (road legals) how long would they last? Six months? A year?

MarquetteLa > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 18:15

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If you’re going to have a set of tires just for the track, then you should definitely get something other than the OE tire. Look into the reviews people have left on the Sumitomo HTR Z III tires , which are in the same “Max Performance Summer” category as your OE ContiSportContact 5s .

Also worth noting the Treadwear Performance score on these two tires: 2.9/10 for the Contis, 7.4/10 for the Sumitomos.

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 18:15

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That’s hard to say, it really depends on the tire, the car, how often you’re driving it and how hard. Doing a few events a year, a set could easily last two years. Or if you’re doing a few events a month like I did this past summer, I used a set up in 5 months.

Spanfeller is a twat > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 01/04/2018 at 18:56

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I’d shoot for 5 events per year

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 19:03

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Being an ace driver is different from being a good instructor, so just be careful. You need someone who can keep you within your limits and safely teach you correct technique instead of just showing/telling you what works for him.

Didn’t realize you were talking about a Stinger, very jealous. GT or non? A lot of the upkeep stuff I mentioned may not be relevant since it is a brand new car – but a general check up is always important (and make sure the car has gone through whatever recommended break-through interval is required). Any tune you get make sure it doesn’t void any warranty you have on your brand new car. Being a newbie you don’t need that level of fine tuning to learn from a track day – even at elevation and heat the car should be more than capable of keeping up with you as a beginner.

Also, being a brand new car and what sounds like a family car – be careful with track days. I don’t know what insurance options you have there but highly recommend researching and getting some coverage specific to track driving as I’m assuming your regular insurance won’t cover any damage during a track event. My very first track day the nicest guy I was chatting with beforehand and talking about cars went out in the run group ahead of me – he rolled his beautiful E36 M3 on his second lap completely totaling the car. This shit happens and is much easier than you might think. Not to scare you, but just stay within your limits, make sure you’re following good instruction, and don’t get too excited. You’re not there to show off your driving skills or how awesome your car is to anyone else – learning and getting through the day safely should be your top 2 priorities.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 19:08

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5 track events a year is a lot of abuse for a brand new family car. If you can afford separate tires and wheels specifically for track duty for such a casual hobby, good for you – but you will also be putting a lot of wear on that new car, and each time on track is a risk. Make sure you are properly insured to cover damage to your car/other peoples’ property on track and/or consider getting a cheap track car. You don’t need a fancy new car to get in to track days. Miatas are so popular amongst track enthusiasts for a reason. They’re cheap to buy, repair, and maintain. Lack of power is a good thing for most people given the circumstances.

Spanfeller is a twat > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 01/04/2018 at 19:11

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I’d love to get a beater NA miata but getting anything older than an NC is impossible here.

Getting any 1994 or older miata or even an e30 is brutally expensive (looking at 2 or 3 the cost in the US)

But you’re probably right about the abuse part!

Spanfeller is a twat > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 01/04/2018 at 19:12

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Its the GT but I’d probably have it de tuned to 290hp because Mexican gas is bad and mexico city air is very thin;

Spanfeller is a twat > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 01/04/2018 at 19:14

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I’m getting more and more convinced to find a beater tbh

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 19:29

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Yeah I get the excitement of having a fun new car but track days seriously are no joke. It’s worth researching who is running it and how they organize it more than going by $. But beforehand try out autocross and maybe a car control clinic. At least when I was getting in to this stuff the local BMW club was an excellent resource for trying these things out. With that club you weren’t even allowed to register for a track event without having attended a car control clinic (where they have closed exercises where they help you safely take your car to the limit/lose control so you know what to expect/how to react to it). Also having seasoned instructors and a good separation between skill levels also helps a lot in keeping risk low.

I’d say an autocross is safe enough (if put on by a reputable organization and run safely) even for your brand new car (after break-in) to get those thrills and see what the car can do (at least from a handling perspective) over going straight into track events. There are just so many variables with track days and a lot to lose. Becoming part of an autocross community will help you meet other people who do track days as well who will be a great resource to learn the ropes with, and get info on which places/groups are better to go with in your local area, insurance options you might have, cheap track car options etc. without having to risk putting your brand new car on the line right off the bat.

Spanfeller is a twat > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 01/04/2018 at 19:36

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Yes, I am wanting to care for the car, I read the owners manual and I will take all the break in precautions.

I also know I’m a newbie and I want to remind myself that as much as I can because: its the truth.

I know the car is way too much of a car for me, I’ve thankfully never lost control of a car but I’ve come close a few times and it serves as a reminder that real life is not Forza.

I can try to get into a clinic but much of those are ran by BMW or Porsche; not Kia really. Hopefully hermanos Rodríguez has a course.

Their website is focused on taking street racers out of the streets and focusing on safe racing, it seems like a good goal!

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 20:23

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I have never heard of a BMW group not letting other cars in, Porsche can be a little worse about it, but depends on the individual region.

Spanfeller is a twat > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 01/04/2018 at 20:28

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I’ll check out bmw in detail, but last time I checked either they rented the car for you (a bmw) or you brought your own...

Wagon Guy drives a Boostang > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 22:24

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And the pzeros suck. I only ran them for about 5000 miles, mostly on teh street, and they just don’t grip well.

miadaman? yes please > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 23:30

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Do stingers come with dot4 brake fluid? Because you’ll want dot4. From insurance and warranty pov it’s easy to tell which tire has been tracked, so if that’s a potential problem you’ll want 2 sets.

Try to look for track days with regulated and controlled passing, focus on the technique and not speed.

Also drink water and have fun!

Spanfeller is a twat > miadaman? yes please 01/04/2018 at 23:36

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This is what the owner’s manual says: DOT3 or DOT4. I’ll ask the dealer what it comes sorted with!

miadaman? yes please > Spanfeller is a twat 01/04/2018 at 23:52

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Should say so on the brake reservoir cap, factory pads are probably not the best stuff either so take it easy when pedal starts to go soft.

CobraJoe > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 01/05/2018 at 09:18

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The day I went to had a very wide mix of semi-pros and complete noobs. It was absolutely a great environment to get out to see if you’d be willing to spend more money on more training and seat time.

For me, the best part about it was the people. There was even one older guy who offered to ride along and show me the track and his racing line. I ended up cooking my brakes pretty hard that session, but but the end of the day I passed a couple cars.

I can’t guarantee that it’ll be the same everywhere, but if you’re friendly and willing to listen, you can probably learn more than enough to get started.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Spanfeller is a twat 01/05/2018 at 10:24

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At least for a clinic bringing your own car is the entire point - so you get to experience how it handles at the limit and learn how to control it. At least in the US the BMW clubs are open to drivers of any brand of car for these events. Note these are run by BMWCCA member organizations - not BMW corporate or dealerships (who may have those “come drive our newest cars through a course!” type PR events, which is an entirely different thing).

Spanfeller is a twat > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 01/05/2018 at 12:12

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Nah, here in Mexico they give you their own cars; and its kinda very expensive; 400 dollars for the simplest clinic.

I love the fact that they have a factory bulletproof car driving clinic too...